Episode #082 Listbuilding Ads: The Cornerstone of Our Success
Listbuilding Ads: The Cornerstone of Our Success
In today's episode, we're diving deep into one of my all time favorite topics: Facebook ads, and even more specifically: list building ads.
I'm going deep on how building an email list around the clock, using these ads, is more efficient and cost-effective than any other strategy we deploy in our business to scale.
I'll be share insights on...
How to look at the big picture of listbuilding ads (and why they might even be better than getting customers from ads)
Why a relationship with a lead might just be more important than a sales page
The amount we spend on listbuilding; and the vision we leverage to make our efforts profitable.
Tune in and get ready to learn why list building ads might just be the game-changer you’re looking for.
Links Mentioned:
Full Transcript:
Zach Spuckler:
This is Not Your Average Online Marketing Podcast, episode number 82. And in this episode, we're talking about how list building ads have become the cornerstone of our success and how to decide if they might be right for you to grow your email list 24/7 without having to constantly post on social media. So if you're looking to grow a list, engage that list, and sell to that list, this episode is for you, so stay tuned. Hey. Hey. Hey. Not so average marketer. Welcome to another episode of the podcast.
Zach Spuckler:
I am really excited for this week because to be blunt, it's on one of my favorite topics, which is Facebook ads. You all know if you've listened to this show for any period of time, you know that I am a sucker for a good Facebook ad. And specifically, I wanna talk about a Facebook ad that we've been running for the last couple years pretty consistently that's created massive growth for us. And really at its most simplistic level, that ad is a list building ad. And I think in recent years, people are doing less and less list building in between their promotions, But I can honestly tell you that it's one of the best things that we've done for our business is grow our email list 24/7, specifically with ads designed to get people to opt into a freebie. And I kinda wanted to start this episode by addressing the elephant in the room. And the elephant in the room is probably a lot of the messaging that you've seen on Facebook or Instagram or various email or marketing channels that kinda say like, oh, don't grow your email list with free leads. Don't get names in emails because what you should do is sell a product on the front end.
Zach Spuckler:
$7, $17, $37, because leads on your email list is not as good as buyers on your list. And we're gonna talk about, in today's episode, why I'm so pro lead generation. But I think it's important to address this because if we are kind of like, well, yeah, I wanna grow my list, but actually what I want is buyers, and we get sucked into that mentality - I shouldn't even say sucked into that mentality because it's not a bad mentality to have at its most basic level. But let me tell you a couple of things about ads that go directly to a low ticket product. First things first, they're harder to convert, right? And the reason that they are harder to convert is that asking somebody for their name and email, especially with the lead generation type ads that we run, gets a 50% plus opt in rate. Okay? Over 50% of people who click on our ads typically give us their name and email. When we run an ad to a low ticket product, we're talking 3 to 10%, depending on the quality of the copy, the design, the creative of people who click that ad are gonna buy. And here's the thing.
Zach Spuckler:
Even if you do the most simple math, if let's say, 5 out of every 100 people that click your ad buy your product versus 50 out of every 100 people that click your ad, give you their name, and email, you can imagine that it's going to cost more to convert someone to your product. And at its most simple level, that's because a lower percentage of people who click are going to convert. And so it's more expensive to convert people to buyers. It also is contingent on you being able to write really great copy and creative. And that is why I'm such a fan of list building ads, especially for people who are more beginners to Facebook because, frankly, it's an easier win. Right? If you drive people to a product where the messaging isn't dialed in, the sales page doesn't look great, the copy and the creative isn't just right, you're just gonna be spinning your wheels. And I've seen people spend $500, $1,000 testing different copy and creative to find a winner or even sometimes to find they don't have a winner product. Right? And so if it's more expensive, that also means it requires a bigger budget.
Zach Spuckler:
And so I tell people all the time, if you're not spending at least $1,000 per month on Facebook ads, plus a little extra the 1st couple months to do testing on different copy and creative, you're not gonna get a lot of results. Like, to be really candid, when we run ads to our Facebook ads for list building boot camp, we typically only do it when we're running it live, and we pay $30 to $50 per purchase. So if your budget is $5 and you're spending $50 per purchase, you're only going to get 10 to 20 purchases. And if you're only getting 10 to 20 purchases for that entire budget, here's the thing, your marketable audience is smaller. And I'm not saying that your marketing marketable audience is better or worse. I'm just saying it's smaller. And for a lot of people, like I said, especially if you're getting started with Facebook ads or intentionally growing your list, it's much easier to get the lead, and it's much more lucrative to get the lead. Because if you're trying to grow your audience and you only have a list of 20 people because you spent your entire $1,000 budget trying to get 20 people to buy your product.
Zach Spuckler:
And, yes, you make a little money on that or you break even or you're close to break even. Sure. But you still need that $1,000 of front load and you still that's contingent on you having good copy, good creative, good landing page, good conversions. Right? Here's what I tell people. It's all about growing an audience. Because as like I I know I'm I know I've said this a few times, but, like, especially if you're getting started with ads, let's say you do have an okay product and you convert 3 to 5 people who go to your sales page. That means 95% of the people that went to your sales page, you don't have a way to market to them. I'd rather say, let me market a freebie that will still sell my product.
Zach Spuckler:
We'll talk about this. And grow my list to, you know, 50 people and have 3 of them buy my low ticket product. And maybe I spend a little more and I lose a little bit on the front end because I'm growing the list, but what I'm doing is I'm growing an audience. Right? Because what it really comes down to is the reason that list building ads are the cornerstone of the success of our business, I really truly believe that, is that they they do 3 things. 1, they expand our audience, so we're always reaching new people. Right? And they're expanding our new audience, we'll talk about this too, in a way that sells our products. 2nd, it's cheaper to acquire that lead than it is to acquire a customer. And frankly, I like my content to be seen.
Zach Spuckler:
Right? And I know that maybe you might say, like, well, that's vain or that doesn't matter. You know, revenue is the bottom line, but here's the thing. Somebody might be following my podcast for 2 months, 2 years before they make a purchase. But the last thing that list building ads do is they let me build a relationship. And so if you're listening to this episode, there's a good chance that it's not the first time you've ever listened to an episode. There's a chance it is. And if it is, great. There's a chance that you like it and you listen to past episodes.
Zach Spuckler:
And so I love list building ads because what they do is, number 1, I'm always growing the audience. Number 2, I'm building a relationship with that audience. And 3, it costs less. And to really expand on this relationship side of things is that when you are creating new products or new programs, you're probably not a master copywriter. You're probably not a master designer. And that's okay. No one's expecting you to start your entrepreneurial journey or even be early in your entrepreneurial journey or even be a few years into your entrepreneurial journey and be a master copywriter, program designer, messaging expert. And so to me, I'm not saying that copy and creative are not important, and I wanna really impress this.
Zach Spuckler:
Copy and creative matter. And when it comes to selling your product, a connection can outsell crappy copy and design. Right? Because when you connect with your audience, they trust you. You build a relationship. You build trust. You build a, I know this person. Right? So, like, full transparency, if you're listening to this episode and you're like, oh my gosh, I wanna run Facebook ads, and you go to theadsbootcamp.com, you can join our September 2024 Facebook Ads for List Growth Boot Camp. Right? And if you've been listening to this show for multiple episodes or you know me, let's listen.
Zach Spuckler:
I'm not gonna lie. We have had that sales page reviewed by copywriters and messaging experts, and we played with design, and we've hired people to create assets for us. And and, you know, we built it over a couple years, But some people who are listening to this show, that are listening to this episode, that have just been waiting for that boot camp, or didn't even know we had a Facebook Ads for List Building Bootcamp are gonna go to that page, see it's $25, and just grab it without needing all the details. Does that mean the details don't matter? No. Does that mean the design doesn't matter? No. But it means that building a true and real relationship and connection with your audience can be just as powerful as persuasive copy and creative. Right? So the the one thing I wanna say about that though is that the wrong freebie will attract the wrong leads, but the right freebie qualifies people for your offer. Okay? So the reason that I believe our list grows so efficiently is that our freebies are all related to Facebook ads.
Zach Spuckler:
And I talk about this more in-depth than in other episodes of the show, but I wanna just touch on this is that the key elements of your freebie to create long term relationships and value are number 1, it needs to be desirable. People need to want what it is you're giving away for free. And And the biggest mistake that I see people make when they create a freebie is they create it from a place of what they know, not what the audience is asking for. And it's not to say that what you know isn't important or relevant to the process, but the easiest way to determine is my freebie desirable is to say, does this freebie directly answer a question / problem that my audience has, like, directly or indirectly expressed to me that they need an answer to. Okay? So for example, if you teach how to count macros and your freebie is 5 tips for counting macros, that's not gonna do it. But if your freebie was like, download this 1 page worksheet, calculate your macros in 5 minutes or less, that would be a good seller because people are always like, just tell me how to calculate my macros. Right? The second element of a freebie that's going to create long term value and sustain relationships is that it needs to be digestible. So I see people all the time create a freebie that's, like, super in-depth.
Zach Spuckler:
It's got tons of content. It's really intense about all these different things that they know. Right? Let's just be honest with ourselves. How often do you open a freebie, look at it, and then never open it again? A lot of your audience is doing that too. And that's okay. But we need to realize that if they're they're doing that and we're not actively capturing their attention and actively giving them some sort of result by making it digestible, we're missing the mark. Right? Because if people don't go through our freebie, I'm not saying that you need them to open it 10 different times and go over it over and over and over again. But what I am saying is that you do need people to go through your freebie and actually finish it to see the benefit of having gotten the freebie.
Zach Spuckler:
Right? So it needs to be something they want, but they have to be able to get through it quickly. I say 15 minutes or less is my goal. The next thing is that it needs to be relevant. Right? And the one example that I always love to give, it's it's a little hyperbolic, but I always tell people think about it like this. If you were doing a freebie called How to Grow Your Facebook Page Likes, and then your paid product was about Instagram, it wouldn't be relevant. It wouldn't be in alignment. So I always tell people, make sure that your freebie is in direct alignment with what your back end offers are gonna be. And that can mean that the content of it is like the stuff they need to know to want your offer.
Zach Spuckler:
It can be like the problem they're facing before they face the problem that your offer solves. It can be like a stepping stone. It can be all kinds of things. But the big thing to keep in mind is that it needs to ultimately be relevant to your paid offers. Now the last thing that I tell people that and this to me is the most important, is that you need to make sure your freebie is valuable. And this is one that I get really fired up about. I might get on my soapbox for a second. But that is that when people go through your freebie, they should actually get something out of it.
Zach Spuckler:
Right? One of the big things that's always a hot topic when I talk to my students or members of our programs is they say, I don't know what to give away for free, and I don't know what to give away paid. And I always say, just don't hold back. Right? Your goal with a freebie is you're not going to deliver everything that your course, your coaching, or your group programs deliver over weeks and modules in 15 minutes. So your goal isn't how do I you know, what do I give them so that in 15 minutes, they they don't have everything? Like, give them a result. Give them something valuable. For example, our top freebie right now is our $15 A Day Facebook Ads Guide. And it literally teaches the evergreen strategy we use for our Facebook ads.
Zach Spuckler:
Now is it every point and click video that our courses have? Is it everything in our membership? No. But I'm not like, oh, I can't share my strategy because then you'll know it. I'm like, I'm gonna share my strategy because once you know my strategy, you're gonna be more likely to buy from me, and you're gonna be more likely to trust that I know what I'm talking about. So I'm looking to build trust, equity, and value. Right? So you wanna make sure, again, your freebie is desirable. Does it solve a problem? Digestible. Can they get through it? Relevant. Does it leave share other offers? And valuable.
Zach Spuckler:
Is it actually something people are gonna be happy they gave their name and email for? Are they gonna hit that unsubscribe button because they don't see any value in it? K? Now I kind of started this episode with this thought that I'm like, list building ads are the cornerstone of our success. And I just wanna really impress this by sharing that we pay $2 to $3 per lead on our current freebie, and we're spending about $125 a day on lead generation every single day. Okay? This is not me being like, oh, lead ads are great, and you should run them because, you know, that's what we teach and they're so awesome. This is what we use in our business. This is literally where we are spending the mass majority of our Facebook and Instagram ads marketing budget. We are doing that on lead generation. And the reason that we do that is because when people join our list, 2 things happen. 1, they get a trip wire, and 2, they go into an email sequence to sell that trip wire if they don't buy it.
Zach Spuckler:
Now first thing first, what's a trip wire? So a trip wire is essentially an offer that is made to somebody for a low price, in my opinion, immediately after opt in. So we have our Facebook and Instagram ads boot camp that we sell on evergreen. Like I said, we're doing it live in September. You can check it out at theadsbootcamp.com. But essentially, you can buy that on evergreen for $25. And when you opt into our Facebook and Instagram ads guide, we have, like, thank you for opting in. If you want, you can buy our training course on how to set up the foundational ads, list building ads, that we teach in our strategy. Right? Now realistically, the tripwire does not convert super high.
Zach Spuckler:
1 to 2%, if that. Right? Most people do not buy on the tripwire, but it really exposes people to our product. And it is a product that is sequential after their freebie. Like, they would need that information next. Right? So it's low conversion, but it's high exposure. I'm telling people I have something for sale. I'm leading with my offer. Then once people download the freebie, if they don't get the tripwire, they're gonna go through an email sequence that sells the evergreen version of our Facebook and Instagram Ads for List Growth Bootcamp.
Zach Spuckler:
Right? Because less people will click on those email, but when they do, they're highly engaged and they're more likely to convert on the product. Right? So even though our core ad that we're running is for list building, it's still selling our product. We pretty much have sales 95% of the days that the business is open. Maybe 90 on a bad month. But, like, for the last 4 to 6 months, we have been doing almost a sale every day. And we generate revenue every day from our members and our services, but, like, we are bringing in new customers on top of our new leads on a very regular basis. And that's what I wanna impress upon you is that list building is not this excuse to not be selling. If anything, it's an excuse to grow your audience more intentionally so that you can sell more frequently and you can sell on autopilot.
Zach Spuckler:
And so for us, I wanna share, like, what we do to keep these ads relevant and frankly, to be able to spend $5k a month on list building, right, is that we have this big vision of what we're doing. So the foundation of our vision is build the audience. Right? We want our audience to grow. Because if my audience grows, more people listen to this podcast. If more people listen to this podcast, more people will buy the bootcamp on evergreen or live. Right? More people that see my content, the more people I'm nurturing and I'm growing and I'm connecting with. So foundationally, I have this big vision that I always want my list to be growing. Right? My goal is that by the end of 2025, we have over 50,000 people on our list.
Zach Spuckler:
Like, that is my big, crazy, audacious goal, and we're working on it. Right? The second thing that I'm doing as my vision is I'm nurturing and converting new leads all the time. So, like, when I drop this podcast episode, we'll email it to the entire list, and some people will be nurtured by that. And some people will convert to our live boot camp in September on that. Right? So I'm always nurturing and connecting with the people on my list. And nurturing doesn't mean that you have to release a blog or a podcast every week. It just means that you're connecting with and emailing these people. And if you're really curious about how that looks, you can check out the last episode I recorded, episode 81, which is how we grew our business even without recording a podcast for a 120 days.
Zach Spuckler:
But they're you know, we're nurturing these new leads that come in. Then here is like our secret sauce. Okay? If you take nothing else away from it, take away this. We launch once a quarter. I am a firm believer that launches are not bad. Evergreen is not bad. Launches are not king. Evergreen is not king.
Zach Spuckler:
They're simply the combination of selling your products actively and passively all the time to create a product focused business and a customer focused business. Right? So once a quarter, we'll do our Facebook and Instagram ads boot camp. Our Facebook and Instagram ads boot camp leads to our membership, and our membership has ancillary products where people can book consults with me, or you can buy our other courses. But I'm launching once a quarter because I'm gonna build the list. Right? And 3 to 5% of people are gonna buy the boot camp. But another 3 to 5%, based on what we've seen, will buy the boot camp when it's live. They'll buy it when it's marketed a different way. They'll buy it when it's in a live experience, a live launch.
Zach Spuckler:
Right? And then we profit really well on that launch. We typically see a 40 to 60% profit margin on that launch. And then we repeat that every single quarter. Right? Because if the list is always growing and I'm always nurturing and connecting with them, then every time I launch, as long as I continue to compound the money from that launch back into the list building and nurturing, the launch is gonna be bigger next time, and then I repeat it. So it's almost like walking up a set of steps. Right? It's like you're on the steps, you're building the list, you're nurturing, and then you launch, boom, you're up a step. For us, our monthly recurring revenue goes up. We bring in an influx of cash.
Zach Spuckler:
We're launching to our audience, and we're building customer base. Right? We're building a customer base. So, you know, the reality is people follow me for years before they jump into a program. And so the reason at its core that list building ads are the cornerstone of our success is that I'm playing the long game with lead ads. I'm playing the long game to attract my audience. And I might attract people to my audience who don't convert, but I'm definitely gonna attract people that do, and I'm definitely gonna talk to the people on my list to set them up for the highest level of success that they can have with our products and services. Right? And so just to do a super quick recap, we talked today about the elephant in the room. Right? Leads aren't as good as buyers.
Zach Spuckler:
And while, yes, buying leads are technically higher quality and often convert to other products at a higher price point, they are harder to convert. They do require us to be really great at copying creative on not just our ads, but our sales pages, and they require a bigger budget. So with it being more expensive, it's not where I recommend people start if your budget's not at least $1,000 a month with additional room for testing. What we do is we run list building ads, because they help us expand our audience. They're a lower cost per lead, cost per acquisition, and they allow us to build a relationship with our audience. Because connection can always convert, even if design and copy is still being learned. We then talked about the key elements of your freebie. That it needs to be desirable, it needs to solve a problem.
Zach Spuckler:
Digestible, you need to be able to get through it. Relevant, it needs to lead to your other offers. And valuable. If people don't see value in it, why would they pay you for something that you're charging for if they already know the upfront stuff isn't great. Right? Then I talk specifically about our business. We pay $2 to $3 a lead spending $125 plus per day on lead generation right now leading into our launch. And when people join our list, they're trip wired to be exposed to our offer and then sequenced to be sold that offer. And so the big vision of our business is we're always growing our list.
Zach Spuckler:
We're always nurturing and converting them day to day. But then once a quarter we launch to bring in a big influx of cash, increase the monthly recurring revenue via our membership, and we repeat that process, which is like walking upstairs. We're always building the list more aggressively the next quarter than the last. We're always nurturing and converting more people than the last. We're always launching, hopefully increasing that every quarter. And then we just repeat time and time again. Because people will follow you for years before they jump into a program, sometimes before they jump into a membership, and that's okay. Because if you play the long game, you're playing to win.
Zach Spuckler:
So I hope you got mad value from this episode. If you want to check out the show notes, you can head over to heartsoulhustle.com/nyap082. Again, that's heartsoulhustle.com/nyap082 for Not Your Average Podcast, episode number 82. We'll have the transcript, the show notes, the links to what we talked about today, the ads boot camp if you wanna join us live in September, the last episode of the podcast that talked about our content and engagement strategy in between launches that let us have big launches, and I just hope you got mad value from this episode. I mean, if you take away one thing from it, I hope it's this, be growing your list all the time. There is so much value to growing and nurturing an audience. Yes. Getting customers is great.
Zach Spuckler:
We run ads to get customers too, which is like a whole another conversation we can have, But I really wanna impress upon you this. There is always benefit in growing, nurturing, and launching to an audience. And that's what we teach people to do. Now quick reminder, if you want to join us and get these exact ads that we use for list building set up in your business, from September 23rd to September 27th, I'm gonna be hosting a live 5-day Facebook and Instagram Ads for List Growth Bootcamp. You can head over to theadsbootcamp.com to claim your spot in that bootcamp for just $25. And within 48 hours, we will have you up and running ads that grow your list. And we regularly see students generating their first 100 leads during the week. So if it sounds like something that appeals to you, theadsbootcamp.com, come join us.
Zach Spuckler:
$25 for the week. We do all kinds of cool stuff in there, contests and giveaways, copy editing, creative feedback. We even contract a copy editor and designer to come in and support you and look at your ads and give you feedback. I'm in there providing feedback. I mean, it's just such an incredible event. We would love to have you, theadsbootcamp.com. So So there you have it. List building ads is a cornerstone to business growth.
Zach Spuckler:
I hope you have an incredible rest of your week. I hope you start building your list. And until next time, stay not so average.
