Episode #038: Creating a Full Time Low Ticket Product Biz With Hallie Sherman
Creating a Full Time Low Ticket Product Biz With Hallie Sherman
Have you wondered what a low ticket product business can look like for a non-B2B Business?
Enter Hallie Sherman!
Hallie is the owner of Speech Time Fun, and she runs a highly profitable low-ticket product based business, and now she's sharing how with us!
When you tune into the episode you're going to learn...
-> How Hallie works 5-10 hours a week on the side (with a full time job) and makes a full-time income with her business
-> The power of systemization and processes for scaling a business
-> Understanding the power of connecting with and talking with your audience
Tune in, and listen up - because Hallie has cracked the code to Low Ticket success!
Links Mentioned on the Show From Zach:
Full Transcript:
Zach: This is Not Your Average Online Marketing Podcast Episode Number 38. And on this episode, we're talking to Hallie Sherman about how she has a low-ticket, high profitability business. And I'm really excited for this episode and I will tell you why once we get into it.
Zach: Hey, hey, hey, Not So Average Marketers, welcome to another episode of the podcast. Now, I mentioned briefly in like two seconds ago how excited I am to have Hallie on the show because I met Hallie through a mastermind that I'm in. And she, I won't give away too much, but she works with a target audience that isn't spending 2, 3, 4, $10,000 on coaching or courses. And she's been able to generate a really successful business with a high volume, low-ticket sales game. And I'm just so excited to have her on the show. So Hallie, welcome to the show.
Hallie Sherman: Thank you so much for having me.
Zach: Now, like I said, I don't want to give away too much. We are so excited that you're here. We don't do guests a lot, but I reached out to you. Your target market, I'll let you share in a second, but is not the people listening to this show. So you are doing this as a personal favor. So everyone listening should send you lots of love because we really appreciate you doing it just because. But why don't you tell us a little bit about who you serve, what you do, and just a little bit about your business as a whole.
Hallie Sherman: Sure. So I am actually a speech language pathologist and I work full-time in the schools, but I also serve as a speech language pathologist in the schools by creating digital resources and trainings, and support to help them be better SLPs with more confidence. And spend less time freaking out over their lessons and spending more time doing what they love, which is helping their students.
Hallie Sherman: So I started this business about 10 years ago as an accident. I can truly say I am an accidental entrepreneur. I did not go to business school. I almost failed out of my business class in undergrad. If you asked me 10 years ago if I'd be doing something like this, I would've laughed in your face. If you said that my face was going to be on social media, I would've been like, "Who is that person? Not me." If you said I was going to be presenting in front of large groups of people, I would've said "Stop, like, hold the phone. Again, that's not me."
Hallie Sherman: But when I was early on in my speech pathology career, there was not a lot of jobs, especially in New York. I know in other areas there's a high need for speech pathologists. And I was getting down on myself and I started blogging, and people started finding my blogs and saying, "Hey, can you create resources? I would buy them from you." I'm like, "Okay." So I started doing that and 10 years later here I am now just offering professional development, I have a membership, I have a virtual retreat, all the things so.
Zach: I love this and we're going to dig into all of it. The one thing that you said that I really love is you're like, "People said want this so I created it." And that is such a big thing that we talk about in our business is like just give people what they're asking for like at an approachable rate. So speaking of that, can you tell us your most expensive offer? What's the most someone can spend with you at one time and what it is?
Hallie Sherman: So if you buy my annual membership, that's $275.
Zach: And how much is it a month?
Hallie Sherman: $29.
Zach: Yeah. So, so most people are, correct me if I'm wrong, but most people are spending like $29 a month with you plus resources that they buy?
Hallie Sherman: Yes. So they can buy like a la carte on my Teachers Pay Teachers store, which everything ranges from three to maybe 10, some $15. I have some bundles, which are resources put together. I think my most expensive bundle is I think $75 maybe or you can spend monthly with me in my membership.
Zach: Okay, so this is where I geek out because we don't have a lot of expensive products in our business. We have a group coaching program, which a lot of people are like, "That must be how you're making money," but we only take 12 people a quarter. And it's actually a really small segment of our revenue. But your low-ticket products are like the mass majority of your revenue. And you're constantly creating new products, which I love and I want to talk about that too.
Zach: But can you talk to me about, I would love to know, and we did not pre-plan this, but do people often come to you and say like from the consulting marketing side of things like, "Hallie, why don't you raise your prices?" Are you getting that from people?
Hallie Sherman: No, not at all, especially not my audience. They want me to lower it, if anything.
Zach: Right. I love that. You are a very savvy marketer. I know you said you started accidental, but I've gotten to hear you speak and I've gotten to talk to you, and I know you're very savvy at what you do. And how have you kind of like wrapped your mind around being in the room with people who are like, "I charge $1,000 for my thing or I charge $2,000 for my thing, or my thing is all high-ticket coaching" and your product is 275.
Zach: I know that you have like that, because I've seen you speak. You have like that confidence of like, "I know my market, I know what I want." But for people who are thinking, "Oh, I really have to be high-ticket to make money." What are you saying to people like that who are in various industries who are like, "I'm not ready to charge that kind of money" or even just saying, hearing that they have to raise their prices because I hear that constantly and I know a lot of people in my audience do.
Hallie Sherman: I am constantly reminding myself like I'm where my audience was. I am where they want to be and I was once them. So I know what it's like to be in their position to spend on things, granted my resources weren't available back then. That's why I created them. But I realized also, yes, I've been in rooms with in our mastermind and things like that. And people are having more higher ticket items, but I'm making just as much. So the proof is in the pudding. Like they need less sales to make more money, but they need to do much more touchpoints to get that money.
Hallie Sherman: Where a lower ticket item, I don't want to call it impulse buys, but it doesn't require so much touchpoints. Like someone doesn't need to think about it and like talk to their husband about it like I'm going to spend $3. They've spent more money at Starbucks. Let's be real here.
Zach: Yeah. So I love that. And I think there's also this other side of things. I know you're very hands on with your members, but you're also very ... and I don't want to give away too much because this is so cool. But you're also very like you can sell low-ticket products and there's not this like drive or like internal pressure to be like, "Oh, I just sold that so now I have to do the private Facebook group and the coaching calls and the live calls. And I have to make sure that everybody feels like they're getting this immense value for this price point."
Zach: Can you talk to me a little bit about your thoughts around that I guess just as a whole? When you sell a resource, I think for us in our world and when I say us I'm talking the marketer side of things. We feel like, "Well, if it's $1,000, then they better feel like it's worth $1,000." And when your low-ticket, my experience at least has been like, "Well, I don't feel like that." I feel like I'm giving this incredible product at this incredible price point and I don't have to be the business as much. What do you think about that or do you feel that way?
Hallie Sherman: When I price my items, I think about what would I spend. Think about when you go to a restaurant, you're looking at the menu. If you want that steak dinner, you're not going to care that it's $65. You're going to get that steak dinner. If you want that bowl of pasta for only 18, people are going to just spend what they're willing to spend. And I price my items, what I think it is worth.
Hallie Sherman: And I'd rather people be surprised and delighted and want to come back for more versus saying like, Eh." I want them to also have that quick win. If they buy it and don't use it right away, what good is it?
Zach: Yeah. I love that. And do you find with low-ticket products that it's easier to get that quick win because it's not this big hard to digest thing?
Hallie Sherman: Yes. But also I think every item comes with that touchpoint of how to use it to get the best result. If you just give it to them and drop off the face of the Earth, they're going to be like, "Who is that person again?" It's going to be in their inbox, in their Dropbox, wherever they put it, and they're going to forget about it.
Hallie Sherman: But if you have some touchpoints after the product sale where you're helping them utilize it and get that win, whether it's with a follow-up sequence of emails, whether it's a video, whether it's part of the PDF that has some extra trainings with it, something that gives them that knowledge of, "Oh, they really do care." And it's something that they'll remember and want to come back to you when you have something else to provide to them.
Zach: I love that because what you're kind of talking about is like treating, even though the products range from three to $75 for your membership, you're not treating it like it's a three to $10 product. You're treating it like a premium experience of like you buy it, you get post follow-up, you get the resources, you get the tools to use it. And I think it's in our experience it's like people are like, "This is worth so much more than what I paid." And that is what you're going for in the low-ticket game, because then people come back and want more.
Hallie Sherman: And that's how you make more money with low-ticket items. It costs more money to acquire a new customer than it is to maintain a customer. So if they can just keep coming back, the lifetime customer value keep coming back. And it doesn't have to be so like high-end, like yes, in a coaching $1,000 program, you're going to get on Zoom calls and really do much more intimate stuff. You can't do that because you need more volume when it's a low-ticket offer, but you can be creative.
Hallie Sherman: I just will share how do I use my digital resource on like a Loom video, post it on my Facebook page, but share it into my membership group. Like it's really for my members, but it's shared on my Facebook page that people can FOMO when they see that and say, "Hey, I want that resource." But I'm also helping my members knowing how to use the resources in my membership. So it's a win-win for everyone, it becomes a marketing tool and I'm supporting my members at the same time.
Zach: Okay, so this is a perfect segue into the question that gets me so excited, which is you're being really strategic in that my observation has been that you don't do anything that's like a one and done. You create stuff that serves multiple purposes. Can you tell us approximately how many hours a week you're putting into your business?
Hallie Sherman: Five to 10-ish. I've never really calculated. I'll be honest.
Zach: That's okay. I love this. And whatever you're comfortable sharing, would you say that it's a lucrative full-time business or is this like a supplemental side hustle?
Hallie Sherman: I never know how to answer that question because I always call it a side hustle because of the time spent. With that said, my revenue is clearly more than my full-time job. I'm keeping my full-time job strictly for retirement and healthcare benefits.
Zach: Okay, cool. So that's what I wanted to get at.
Hallie Sherman: So let's just leave it at that.
Zach: Yeah, no that's perfect. So what I really want to highlight is that you are working five to 10 hours a week and you have this secondary stream of income that is lucrative, which I love. And guys, please don't bother Hallie and be like, "What is it? What is it? What is it?" I promise that I wouldn't pry.
Zach: Because what I really want to get at is that you have gotten so good at systemization and team structure and process, and double-dipping for lack of a better word. Like that example you shared just before that you're keeping your job. This is so cool. I remember you saying this at the retreat because it's got great benefits and you enjoy it.
Hallie Sherman: And it allows me to connect with my audience even more. It is related to my business so it's a win-win. I can say to my audience like, "Hey, I'm right there with you. I'm doing evaluations. I'm getting nagged by my principal." I'm not making it up. I'm not lying. I'm really truly in the trenches with them.
Hallie Sherman: At the same time, I had to learn the hard way where I was burning myself out and not able to scale the way I wanted to by doing it myself. So yes, I've had a hire. I've had to fire. I've had to replace. People left me because I was overworking them. All the things. With that said, now finally on a role where I can meet with my team every Monday say, "This is the agenda for the week" and by Friday I know all the items are complete.
Zach: Yeah. This is so cool because I think what really struck me, you did a presentation in a mastermind about how you're working these short hours and having a really productive business while maintaining a full-time job that you enjoy, which I just think is so stinking cool. Because I think a lot of people we think about online business and we think, "Oh, I've got to do that $2,000 product and then I have to show up for it. And now I'm working nights and I'm working weekends, and I'm trying to make it work."
Zach: When you just started very humble beginnings where you just said like, "I'm just going to create what people want and I'm going to do it in a way that serves my capacity." And then you evolved into team and systems that essentially run. I mean, because you do so much and we'll talk about that in a second, but they run this full-time business and it's full- and it's supporting livelihoods and people. And you are set up in a way that you're not overworked twice over.
Hallie Sherman: Yeah. It's all about thinking smarter and not harder. I always say to my grad students like, "Bs will get you the degree." It doesn't have to be A+ work. It's done is better than perfect. Like all the sayings. And there's so many tools out there now, especially compared to when I began to streamline and automate.
Hallie Sherman: There's certain things that need to be you. There's other ways like it could appear to be you and it doesn't always have to be. You can train people to give them canned responses. It is okay. We email customer support of Target and I'm not talking to the CEO of Target and it's really okay. I get over it.
Zach: Yeah. So that's really good. I want to dive into that for a second. You have done a really great job of creating team structure where ... I don't even want to give it away. Can you just talk to us a little bit about how you structured the fact that you create a lot of resources? So the first place that my mind goes when we have this conversation is I go, "Okay, this sounds great, but you're working five to 10 hours a week and you've got hundreds of resources."
Zach: How are you setting up your team and yourself to essentially be a content creation machine without working more hours? Because I know for me, even the thought of a podcast is like a two to three-hour commitment, even though they're 25-minute recordings. So how are you just this content machine, not just you, but as a business?
Hallie Sherman: Templates and systematizing things. So I made, figure what? Two, 300 resources on my own in seven years. And then I finally realized, "Oh, this is the layout that I like. These are the fonts I like. This is the clip art that I like." And guess what? By me having templates and having similar layouts, it's now branded and someone else can replicate it for me, and just tweak things and change things up. I hire ghostwriters and content creators who take my look, take the content and boom, put it together.
Hallie Sherman: Even my podcast, like it takes me 10 minutes to record a podcast because it's all the same flow. I just try to do as many things that are just like rinse and repeat. Even my promotions, rinse and repeat, let's do the exact same thing. Why change something that's not broken? If my team could just take an image, change the date on it and post it again and not have to go crazy, it gets the job done. So as many things as you can clone, like literally clone like on Kajabi or whatever, that's that gets the job done so why not do that?
Zach: And there's something so beautiful about that, which is most entrepreneurs we say things like, "Oh I could never outsource XY. No one could write a blog the way that I can write a blog." There are certain things. You are the face of the business, you record your podcast, totally get that. But then some of us are like, "Oh, no one could create an amazing sales page like I can or no one can do X, Y, and Z." And there's something so beautiful about the fact that you've built this thriving business because your ego says somebody else can do it. That's just so beautiful.
Hallie Sherman: And I think if you're clear on your premise and your promise and your messaging, you make a Loom video, you give it to someone else, and they can do the same thing and probably better because that's one thing that they're focusing on.
Zach: Yeah. That's so amazing. For those who are listening to this going, "Okay." First off. I've to you guys a lot, if you're listening about low-ticket. I love low-ticket. I think it is a really smart way to go. I think it pads your business. I think it makes you more accessible to more people. You talked briefly about how you work with SLPs, speech language pathologists who don't have this unlimited spend. In the entrepreneur world, we're like, "Oh, $1,000 course, but I'm going to 10X my money." And SLPs just aren't going to do that because that's not what the resources are for.
Zach: What would you say to someone who is kind of putting up that wall, letting that ego kind of creep in saying, "Well, this is great, Hallie, but you started 10 years ago with a blog and blogging's not the same or Zach that's great for you. You started on Periscope five years ago and it's different now because I can't use Periscope to get started." What is your thought around people who are like, "Well it's different now because X, Y, and Z"? I know that's a really loaded question.
Hallie Sherman: Yes. And it's different now, but I've had to learn and adapt over time. I didn't know about email lists 10 years ago. I didn't know about SEO 10 years ago. I didn't know about anything XY. 10 years ago, all I knew about was blogging and Pinterest, like that was it. Maybe a little bit of social media. I didn't know anything about ads. So everything's always evolving. There's always something new and growing. And you have to always be learning and that's okay.
Hallie Sherman: But at the same point, I still know what my audience needs and I'm going to still stay on top of that. I'm going to still constantly be researching. I'm constantly learning myself to just know what is hot in the market for my audience and what are they wanting right now. I'm doing constant market research in Facebook groups and asking questions, and asking my audience like simple as a poll on Instagram stories.
Hallie Sherman: "Hey, are you wanting to learn more about this or this? What is your challenge right now? This or this?" And then I create it. And then it's like, "Oh, she was in my head." No, you commented on my poll. It's really okay. But use it to the benefit. And as long as you're constantly listening and not getting like complacent, anything's possible.
Zach: Yeah. That's so good. And there's one other thing that I just want to pull out of there, which is you said you've been doing this for how long?
Hallie Sherman: 10 years.
Zach: 10 years. And you built it to this incredible place without ... Would you say that it was like a bigger time commitment early on or have you always been kind of like, "This is my side project that's become something incredible like a movement"? We'll link you guys up because I think anyone who wants to study like literally movements should look into what you're doing because you have such an incredible brand and a following.
Zach: And I don't want to gush, but it's just so cool to see. But was this like a bigger commitment early on that's like you've systematized into a lower commitment or what would you say about that?
Hallie Sherman: Yes and no. I think in early on, it was more a hobby. So it was more like if I had an idea and I wanted to execute it, I did it. I didn't have kids back then. If I wanted stay up watching Real Housewives and eating ice cream and making a resource. Like a lot of my older resources have like Real Housewives names in the activity. It's really funny when I can look back on them. When I use them with my students, I'm like, "Hi." I could see which housewife was on at the moment.
Hallie Sherman: But back then I did it when I wanted to, but I didn't understand the potential. So I was creating resources, I was making money, but I didn't understand the true marketing aspect of it and what the possibilities were. And now once I learned the marketing side, I realized that I couldn't do it all. If I was going to do it all, I did burn out early on and it. And that's not even saying I worked a lot of hours. I might have been like 20 hours a week. But after working a full-time job with kids, with a husband, with families saying, "Hey, where are you? Why aren't you coming over?" Things had to change.
Hallie Sherman: And I will say that 2020 was the best thing that ever happened because I was forced to ask for help. When the world shut down and I had no childcare and my audience was saying, "I need more, more, more, more, more." And I was like, "Sweet. I can make more, more, more." And there was only so many so many hours in a day and there was only so much of me to do that. And I realized then that there was a slew of people looking for work that had more skills than me and why not use them?
Zach: There's so much there. That's just incredible because the reason I wanted you on is because you just break the stereotypes that the entrepreneur marketing bubble likes to talk about, which is like, "You have to burn the boats and go all in and treat it like a business if you want to be successful." And you started as a hobby and you know they say like, "More content or more products is not the answer."
Zach: And you have a full product suite in memberships and content, and you just continue to break these stereotypes. And I think for people listening, like my intention if they were listening for one thing is you can really do whatever you want in terms of content, product, price point, and be successful. And that's what gets me so geeked up about having you here.
Hallie Sherman: There's no rules. You can take what's working and reuse it. If you go through my Instagram, I've reused stuff. I went like three years without blogging. Guess what? People were still finding my blog posts. Like I re-shared old things. If it was working, someone new is coming into your world that doesn't know about it. Let's be real, in a month if you say the same story on like Instagram Stories, they're not going to remember like, "Oh, she said that a month ago." It's really okay.
Zach: This is so cool. So if somebody's listening and they're like, "All right, I'm hooked. I like the idea of like a low-ticket, high volume business. I like the idea of really not subscribing to the marketing entrepreneurial norms that we hear a lot in this kind of noisy space." What would you say to somebody who's like, "Okay, I'm all in. I want to do this." I don't want to say where do I start? Because I think for me, what I'm taking away from you is like pick your platform, whether that be blogging, TikTok, Instagram, whatever and just go.
Zach: And it's not a one-year process. You've been doing this for 10 years. So for somebody who's listening, who's like, "Okay, I'm I'm all in." What would you say to them is like imparting your wisdom of what you've learned over the last 10 years with this type of product-based business?
Hallie Sherman: Listen to what your audience is saying. If there's a hole in the market and if you know more than them, at least a little bit more, fill that hole. Like it's one thing, it's one person. But if you start hearing a trend like, "Oh, I need this, oh I need this." That means it's not there. That means what is there they're not liking and in fact you could be that person to create it. And it only takes a few people to know, like, and trust and then love to then spread the word.
Zach: Yeah, that's so good. And the reason I keep pointing out that you've been doing this for so long because you're only 22, right?
Hallie Sherman: I wish, but thank you. Yeah, I started out when I was 12.
Zach: Yep, mm-hmm. The reason I keep pointing that out is because I think, especially with low-ticket, it's like there's this perception that you've got to do it all overnight. And you start with one or two sales and then it's so good that people tell people and it's kind of this like spreading effect, almost like a wildfire that's like the more you do it, the more it spreads to more people. And the more you create this movement. And that's what I love you.
Zach: You just did a virtual retreat and I've been creeping on it and watching you talk about it. It's been so cool to see because you really got this movement of people who are like they're in it for the right reasons. And they love what they do. And you have such this element of play and fun in your brand. And I think it's just this testament to the fact that you've given it the time to mature and grow.
Zach: And I think with low-ticket, that's what we're learning in our side of the world is like it's different, and it does take some time to mature and grow. And sometimes you are working a 20-hour week and sometimes you're working a five-hour week. And as you grow and systematize, you get to allow people and your team and your brand to just shine, and it's been so, so cool to see.
Hallie Sherman: And don't be afraid to ask your audience and survey them. And just the first release is not the final product. It's not set in stone. I wouldn't throw it out and start a whole new product, ask them, make the tweaks. That's the benefit of a smaller audience is you can really have that engagement and hear from them and learn what they want so.
Zach: This has been so great. I know we covered a lot here and I just love it so much. If I could pull out a couple things and then I'm going to hand it over to you to tell us where we can go creep on you to see how you just continue to crush it. Number one, you talked a lot about systemization and getting the right people in place. And kind of letting that ego fall to the wayside that, trust me, other people can do it better than you. I constantly shout out Jessica and Ashley from my team on this show because we wouldn't have a business without them. Ashley and Jessica do a lot of stuff a lot better than me. They deny it sometimes, but they're liars. So if you guys are listening, you guys are liars.
Zach: Number two, you talked about the value of listening to your audience and starting small and starting where you are. And that really, we talked briefly about how you don't have to burn the boats and give up your career or your life to start a business. And it's okay to just start where you are. And I don't want to say dabble, you really have gone all in, but-
Hallie Sherman: But have fun with it.
Zach: Exactly. Have that fun with it. And then the last thing that really stood out to me is like there's nothing wrong with having a slew of products and having multiple offers, and multiple ways to work with people. And still treating a $3 product the same way you treat a $300 product, because that's going to wow people and help them share even more. Is there anything else you want to add that you're like, "Man, it's super important that we just make sure people take this away from the show"?
Hallie Sherman: Still treat your audience as if they were spending that 2,000, and they will come back and love up on you more and more.
Zach: I love it. Well, Hallie, for those who are like, "Okay, where's the shroud of mystery? Where do we find you on Instagram? Where do we find you on the blog?" Where can we check you out? We don't want to inflate your traffic with marketers, but I know people are going to want to creep because I've said so many good things, I hope about what you're doing.
Hallie Sherman: Sure. So my website is speechtimefun.com. I'm on all social media, Instagram, Facebook @speechtimefun. And my membership is SLP Elevate. I also have a podcast, SLP Coffee Talk where you can see how I'm also just trying to nurture my audience always and just loving up on them so.
Zach: That's awesome. Well, we're going to link all of that up in the show notes over at heartsoulhustle.com/nyap038. So that's heartsoulhustle.com/nyap038 for Not Your Average Podcast Episode Number 38. Hallie, this has been incredible. Thank you so much for being on the show. Guys, go send her a DM, tell her how much you appreciate it. She might not respond because she's not working that much.
Hallie Sherman: Someone else is in my DMs for me so.
Zach: Somebody else will be in her DMs and pass along that appreciation to her, but just show her some love because seriously I cannot thank you enough. You don't work crazy hours and you've showed up after work for us. And I just sincerely appreciate it. It's been so cool to see what you're up to and I just want to give you a big thank you for supporting our audience.
Hallie Sherman: My pleasure.
